Nancy Economou: I had the opportunity to go to the Philippines, and when I was there, I, you know, I was curious like you are, right? Like, how are people living? We had been wined and dined. It was lovely, but I wanted to see how the people of the Philippines were really living. And so I went to a feeding program, and it was at that feeding program that there was...I saw a young girl, and her entire face was burnt. The teachers had... They didn't have burn medicine, so they were putting toothpaste on her face. I'm like, "What happened?" And they're like, "Oh, this happens all the time. Children are burnt because they don't have lighting." And I couldn't imagine as a mother if my daughter's face had been lit on fire, not having any other option but having to put my child in front of an open flame every single night.

So that, quite a few things happened to me in the Philippines, and I can tell you my heart was transformed. And I became aware, and I saw firsthand what it was like for children living in darkness. Um, you know, their parents may be off working. Like, I, I saw it up close, and I came home, and I can't explain it, but I felt compelled that I was supposed to bring lights to people living in darkness.

The turning point for me was I was actually still selling a little jewelry from my home. A woman came to my home, and she had a big business, and she was telling me about this business that she had started. And I said, "Well, I, I have a dream." And she's like, "Yeah, well, what is that?" I said, "It's called Watts of Love, and I'm gonna bring solar lights to people."

She turned and she looked at me and she said, "You know, you have been given that dream for a reason. Don't give up on it." And it was at that moment that I'm like, "She's right." Like, I, I can't explain this crazy idea in my heart, but I need to do something. And that was the moment. That was 2012. I'm like, "I'm gonna start Watts of Love." 

Scott M. Curran: Nancy, welcome to Better Good. 

Nancy Economou: Thank you, Scott. 

Scott M. Curran: I love this one. It's so good to have you. I'm excited to be back in the building where we first met. I know. 

Nancy Economou: 10 years. 

Scott M. Curran: Now over 10 years. Um, but 10 exciting years that I'm super excited to share with other people and to unpack, and thrilled to be together in person again.

Nancy Economou: Absolutely. 

Scott M. Curran: And for those who may not have picked up in the intro, Nancy and I are actually neighbors. We are in the same hometown. We first met when I walked in the door of this very building and said, "So what do you guys do here?" And it was pretty awesome. But I wanna start this, as I do all episodes, with a question I don't know the answer to. 

Nancy Economou: Oh, okay. 

Scott M. Curran: When you think about the idea, the simple concept of doing good in the world, what is your first memory or recollection in your life that doing good is a thing, that either you saw someone do, that people do, or that you thought you might be able to do in your own life? You can pick from any of those.

Nancy Economou: So my first recollection, like, as you asked me that question, was, um- I was a, a babysitter. I loved taking care of children. Like, from a very young age, I just remember, like, gathering all the kids in my neighborhood, telling the parents, "It's okay. I can watch your kids, and your kids, and your kids." And I would just gather all of the children, and I just loved being surrounded by kids. Like, and just, that was something that filled my heart and filled my soul very early on. 

Scott M. Curran:  I love that. That's interesting. In many ways, you're still doing that gathering and, and, encouraging people to go with you on certain journeys.

Nancy Economou: Absolutely ... 

Scott M. Curran: As you've encouraged me for a long time. Like This is, this is a running joke I'll unpack in just a second. Um, okay, so let's time travel a bit. So from that early recollection of doing good and being that convener in your community, um, and of other people, when somebody sees you today, how do you describe who you are and what Watts of do- Watts of Love does in that moment? Yeah. 

Nancy Economou: I would say that, you know, Nancy Economou, and I'm a mom of five boys. And I think that's really, the heart of who I am, and it's the heart behind Watts of Love, is a mother's heart in, in helping people. And it was the way I related to people. And then as far as work goes, I am the founder and the CEO of Watts of Love. 

We give people a solar light, and we pair that with financial literacy. And what we're able to do is recapture that money that would go up in smoke or be wasted on toxic batteries. We teach them how to harness that money, and now reinvest in themselves and reinvest in their families. 

Scott M. Curran: So I love this, and I cannot wait to dive deep. But you didn't start as a leader. So one of my favorite things about Nancy is that the journey itself is a story all its own. The work you do, the work that Watts does, the works, the work that your teams do and that your partners in country do and that the communities that are transformed by the technology you deliver, all do, is parallel to this extraordinary life journey you've been on. And so obviously, we won't ask you to go through everything you've ever done, but, like, you didn't start planning to be a nonprofit leader. You didn't plan to work in international aid or assistance or development or all of the above. You didn't plan to start your own nonprofit. Where did you start your career? 

Nancy Economou: So my background is I sold jewelry at Cartier. So I was serving the top 1% of the world. I was, you know... would go to Paris, sold to Oprah here in Chicago. So my background was in high-end jewelry sales. Once I got married and I started having children, I felt like I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. That, you know, obviously caring for children, I was passionate about children. 

Scott M. Curran: And you had five. 

Nancy Economou: Five boys. 

Scott M. Curran: Boys. So- ... there's a lot of people that cannot, may, may or may not be able to identify with five.But, like, I have two, and our household is already busy. So being a full-time mom- Yeah ... of five boys- Yes ... is a more than full-time job in and of itself. And I- And that was your life for a long time. I loved it. 

Nancy Economou: So just to put it in perspective, Scott, I stopped working when I was 29 years old. I didn't get back into the work for- force until I was 48. So when I stopped working, there were no computers, and I had so much self-talk that I had to get over. Like, I don't know how to text. I don't know... I can light a nation, but I can't do a PowerPoint. Like, it was- 

Scott M. Curran: I feel that pain.  

Nancy Economou: I had such a, such a gap when I started Watts of Love. Um, but it was really out of, you know, compassion that I, I wanted to move forward to make it happen.

Scott M. Curran: Now, just so that people can understand context and scale of where Watts is now after that point, after the starting point. We're gonna come back to the, the origin story because-it is so powerful. It's ain connection with the time I met you than today. But give people an idea of how expansive Watts' work is today, um, as far as footprint, nations served, people served, number of, of trips you've made and that others have made under the Watts brand.

Nancy Economou: Watts of Love since 2013, you know, the first few years were very slow. Um, but it, today I can tell you that Watts of Love's impact is in over 50 nations. Uh, we have distributed close to half a million homes have been lit. So each home is about five people, so there's hundreds, almost, you know, millions of people that have been impacted by our lights. And right now we have in the nation of Malawi, and I'm gonna talk a lot about Malawi because that's going to be our proof of concept, we have over 400 people trained and ready to deploy the Watts of Love mission. 

Scott M. Curran: I love it. So for anybody out there who's ever wondered, is it too late to start? Do I have the skills necessary? I'm just “fill in the blank with whatever label you're thinking of,” executive, I work in jewelry or high-end sales, or I've been out of the workforce in the traditional sense, because let's be crystal clear, being a mom of five boys involves a lot of work. Is it ever too late? 

Nancy Economou: It's never too late. It's purpose and passion. It's those two combined that you can become unstoppable. 

Scott M. Curran: Well, you're speaking my language with that, because that's the title of two chapters, or at least one chapter. Strong agree. So when I first met Nancy, though, when I walked in the doors of the building we're recording this in right now, and just said, "Hey, I'm curious, what do you do?" It was pretty close to the founding of Watts of Love. Mm-hmm. How do you explain both that... So share the origin story. Share the origin story of how you experienced this issue. And then I'm gonna go with you on it, because as I learned from you, that conversation and so many that followed since, some of the work we've done together and just knowing you now over a decade, I'm gobsmacked by the need. And I've had other people on this podcast, including people from water.org, and when you understand the way fundamental human issues like clean water power, and what that really means when someone doesn't have it. It, it shocks, I think, anybody's conscience if they were someone who grew up ultimately in a place of privilege with running water you don't think twice about, or electricity that 99.9% of the time is reliable. We don't think twice about turning on a light. So share where you were and how this issue first hit you, that, the origin story in the Philippines. 

Nancy Economou: Yeah, absolutely. So in 2009, and I just wanna give a little bit of a personal background. Because 2008, I was married at the time, and it was the downturn in the economy. Right. So my ex-husband was involved in real estate, so I can tell you we lost everything in 2008. Um, personally, it was probably the worst moment of my life. So it wasn't like, "Oh, I have all this money. I'm gonna start a cute not-for-profit." It was really, like- I was at the end of my rope. You know, I had five kids. There was a lot of problems within the home. 

But I had the opportunity to go to the Philippines, and when I was there, I, you know, I was curious like you are, right? Like, how are people living? We had been wined and dined. It was lovely, but I wanted to see how the people of the Philippines were really living. And so I went to a feeding program, and it was at that feeding program that there was... I saw a young girl, and her entire face was burnt. The teachers had n- they didn't have burn medicine, so they were putting toothpaste on her face. I'm like- Hmm ... "What happened?" And they're like, "Oh, this happens all of the time. Children are burnt because they don't have lighting." And I couldn't imagine as a mother if my daughter's face had been lit on fire, not having any other option but having to put my child in front of an open flame every single night. 

So that, quite a few things happened to me in the Philippines, and I can tell you my heart was transformed. And I became aware, and I saw firsthand what it was like for children living in darkness. Rheir parents may be off working. Like, I saw it up close, and I came home, and I can't explain it, but I felt compelled that I was supposed to bring lights to people living in darkness. Pre-LEDs, right? So LEDs were just coming on the market. There was no UN sustainability development goals very early in 2009. You know, there wasn't a path forward that I could see besides this desire in my heart. 

The turning point for me was I was actually still selling a little jewelry from my home. A woman came to my home, and she had a big business, and she was telling me about this business that she had started. And I said, "Well, I, I have a dream." And she's like, "Yeah? Well, what is that?" I said, "It's called Watts of Love, and I'm gonna bring solar lights to people." And, she turned, and she looked at me, and she said, "You know, you have been given that dream for a reason. Don't give up on it." And it was at that moment that I'm like, "She's right." Like, I, I can't explain this crazy idea in my heart, but I need to do something. And that was the moment. That was 2012. I'm like, "I'm gonna start Watts of Love." 

Scott M. Curran: There's a lot to unpack that I just love about this, but I want to start with this sort of realization that this is a problem, not just in some parts of the world, but in a lot of parts of the world. And so, and this is what I found, like, jaw-droppingly shocking when I first met you, and you started explaining this problem to me. And, and it was just like an informal social guy walks in, asks a question, and I think you or your brother, who was also one of your co-founders at the time, which I loved. It was a family affair. Like, everybody was all in, and people were, were seeing your passion and feeling, seeing opportunities to contribute. The more they saw, the more they saw, and it was really just had this awesome startup energy that so many startups do, but a purpose-driven one is, is even more awesome. And, and I was, you know, e- enamored with that excitement and energy at the time. 

More people live in darkness today than when the light bulb was first patented. That alone is a shocking data point, that humans on Earth in 2026 still lack access to reliable electrical grids or reliable energy. And then what that mean... I mean, that alone, just sit with that. If you're listening to this and, and you haven't thought about that, think about what life would be like if that was the case for your everyday life, not just an inconvenience when the power goes out, but every day, and how life would be different, what your priorities would look like. But number two, the result of that is that in many or most of these places, you'll make us smarter on this, people then have to rely on kerosene or other fuels if they want a light source after the sun goes down, which is dirty, carcinogens from the burning fuel in a small environment with probably inadequate or nonexistent ventilation dangerous. You have a fire risk with an open flame at any given time, in any given moment, and that's the reality of how this issue first hit your radar screen when you met the young woman with the burns. And expensive. It costs up to 30% of the household budget. 

Nancy Economou: 30% of anyone trying to light their home, batteries, kerosene, it's 30% of their income. Even if it's just this little bit of money, it's 30%, which is equivalent to Americans' mortgage. So it's significant what people are spending just to light their home. 

Scott M. Curran: Dirty, dangerous,and by dirty we also mean unhealthy, right? Because carcinogens create all kinds of health issues, especially if that's the only source you're using day in, day out. And it's taking 30% of the household income, or the equivalent of your entire mortgage is going just to having some kind of light that is actually in a very imperfect and inefficient form of light after darkness. And what that means is if you don't- either you're spending the money to get it, or you don't have it at all, which means you don't have those productive hours after sunset.

Nancy Economou: Correct. 

Scott M. Curran: And what does that mean for a family? What does that mean for everybody in the household? 

Nancy Economou: No entrepreneurship. It's, it's so danger- I mean, bad things happen in the dark. Right. And when there's a single mother with seven children, bad things happen. Right. 

Scott M. Curran: And we're talk- I mean, this is security, this is- 

Nancy Economou: It's everything. 

Scott N. Curran: This is crime, this is rape, this is- 

Nancy Economou: Entrepreneurship. I mean, it's just, you know, there's snakes. There's, you know, uh, scorpions. They breed in the thatch roof, so then when the cold, cool air comes in, they fall inside of your house, so your children are being bit. I mean, it's... It just keeps going. You know, go- going to the bathroom, people are bit by snakes. Children die. Like, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a problem. 

Scott M. Curran: Productive time includes education for children. Um, so people can't read a book or learn after the l- the sun goes down without any source of light. So it becomes an obligation that you have to find money to be able to afford kerosene or some other light source. And so that's the magnitude, that's the scale of what hundreds of thous- or how many hundreds of millions of people are dealing with- Yes ... in, in the world. 

Nancy Economou: You know, 35, 40 years ago, people didn't understand how clean water could help, you know, young girls having to walk to go get it. Like, there was an education process that happened here in America that, that started this, this movement of getting wells to African, wells to areas. I really feel like light aand financial literacy, so it has to be the combination paired, and we can explain that. It's that combination that is going, that needs to... There needs to be an education here in America. Why would you pair a free solar light that can last 10 years with financial literacy? That's, that's my mission here in America. 

Scott M. Curran: And that's my favorite part. So I met you early on when the goal was to have a more durable solar-powered light. That alone is a design challenge, right? Because you have... So I wanna unpack all of it, but I don't want the podcast episode to be 10 years long. So I'm gonna try to, like, I want you to tell the story- Oh ... and I also wanna just, like, get into the things that I know you wanna talk about, which is what you're doing now, because this model that includes financial literacy and all that comes from it is the evolution of it over time. At the time, I remember, and I think you might have it with us, but I'm looking at it on the wall right now, the first light was a puck light in a hard plastic with LEDs that could go various levels of super bright, which...and flash for emergency purposes, et cetera, and you had all these ideas, which I think, and I'm not taking the story away from Nancy, but I want her to unpack some of the amazing sort of, like, serendipitous things that happened and the power of what happens when you take action, and you ask, and you explore, and you let that curiosity take you.

Because at the time on the market—and you gave me this education—ather solar lights were flimsy, cheap, They didn't last. So on one hand, you have these, like, flimsy, cheap, you know, plastic blow-up solar lamps, which seem like a neat idea when you see them. 

Nancy Economou: Which are great. They're really neat. 

Scott M. Curran: Yes, they're hanging, and they're light, and we can- Yeah ... ship a lot of them. And that's great, but 10 weeks, 10 months, and certainly not 10 years later, those things have popped. They are not durable. They no longer work, and now they've become waste. Along with bigger contraptions that are not portable. So solar panels don't really fit well on thatched roofs,or buildings that don't have the infrastructure, or they don't- they require maintenance, and upkeep, and repair, that nobody in that place has. And so while it's a great idea to bring solar panels and other proven technology, there had to be...It was, it's the Goldilocks problem. It was either, you know, too small, too, too flimsy, or too big, too much, and, and not repairable or sustainable, and then you have this problem of waste. E-waste in places that have absolutely no ability to handle them. So in the middle, you seek a design solution.Is that fair to say? 

Nancy Economou: Yeah, absolutely. And there was a, a couple thoughts that I had, because I was working with local leadership. It wasn't about... It was not a... Our program was not gonna be built around Americans coming and handing out lights. The program was gonna be about local people, teaching the financial literacy and distributing the lights. It was gonna cause a problem for them if we were giving lights that were gonna break and not work six months later. So I wanted to make sure that number one, that when we go into a home and we say, "You can now start saving your money. You can now purchase a chicken. You can keep every week purchase a new chicken," which is something new for them. "You can take 10 chickens and trade it in for a goat or a pig." Because they're saving the money on kerosene. Because they're saving the money on kerosene, batteries, whatever they were spending for a light source they can now save. Additionally, there's a second stream of income with light is entrepreneurship. So even if they couldn't afford batteries or kerosene and they're using spear grass or sometimes in some really remote areas they're burning tires, like remo- discarded tires. They take little pieces of tire and burn those. So even if they can't afford something, they now have a light, and part of our teaching is what can you do exactly where you are and become successful? Can you go catch crickets? Can you make bamboo barbecue sticks? Can you grow some tomatoes and sell them in the market? So it's that entrepreneurship. So the light releases entrepreneurship, one stream of income, and then the light will now release the money. We can recapture that and I'm ... Can I show you the light?

So when I started seeing what light could do, and the original light was about this big and, you know, it had buttons and different things, and a separate solar panel, what I saw was the mice were eating through the wires. So then the solar panel wouldn't work, and I was realizing that people were substance farmers, so they're walking long distances, they're farming, they're fishing, so they needed something that was small and portable and durable. So I put the solar panel. This is, this is the light right here. I put the solar panel on the back. It has two forms of charging the battery, solar panel or the micro USB. So if they have access to a charge, a remote charging station, a power bank, they can charge it. 

Scott M. Curran: 'Cause in many of these places, people have phones that connect to a network, but then they still have to go pay to go get that phone charged if they don't have electricity.

Nancy Economou: So in these remote areas, it's usually like a barber shop will have a large solar panel or a generator or, they've kind of created something. So they can during the rainy season- find some type of light or charging station. But I created this... I got rid of the button because we were in a leper colony in Kathmandu, Nepal. I started realizing that with people with different abilities, they couldn't push the button. So I knew that when I was gonna design and create my own light, that it had to be for all people, with disabilities, living in remote areas, waterproof, everything that they could possibly need.

Scott M. Curran: Not to skip over what you just said. You, in this work, went to a leper colony in Kathmandu and found people who, who had lost their hands or fingers, and therefore needed a different design than something that required a fine touch or a... Yes. I just, you know, w- she just skipped right over that. That she was in a leper colony in Kathmandu, and which is where Watts took you, and where this, this whole experience took you. So I just think it's so fascinating. Every time I see Nancy, it's kinda like that. She drops some amazing story on me. Then I'm like, "Wait, I'm sorry. Can we back up and unpack that for a second?" Because it's so much part of the story about how not only the organization has evolved, the work has evolved, where the need is present, but who it serves, to a leper colony in Kathmandu, which is not the only leper colony I think you've been to, is it?

Nancy Economou: Yeah, no, we've been to, to a, a few. Because really our heart is to find, you know, people without electricity, which is not as hard as you think it would be. But also really the overlooked and the shunned people. And, you know, and realizing some of these needs... So and then also realizing people don't have glasses. 

Scott M. Curran: And some people are blind. 

Nancy Economou: And some people are blind. Yeah. So, you know, here is, in the center of the light is a raised heart so they can feel where to push. 

Scott M. Curran: So they know the difference between the front, which is where the light is- And the back ... and the back, which is where the solar panel is. Got it.

Nancy Economou: Exactly. So it's a, this push and hold. The three green lights means that it's 75%. Okay. Um, the first setting will last 120 hours of continuous runtime. So if they use it two hours a night, they're gonna have days and days and days. The power of LEDs, right? Exactly. And then the second one will last 50 hours. 

Scott M. Curran: Each time Nancy's pressing this, the light's getting brighter. If you're, if you're listening to this. Uou should go to YouTube and watch the video, but if you're listening to this, she's showing us. It's about the size of a coaster really. It's like a square coaster. Um, and it's only about, what, a half-inch thick?

Nancy Economou: About a, yeah, probably about a half inch. 

Scott M. Curran:: Yeah. Okay. And- And so as you're pressing it each time, it's getting brighter, and there's a green LED that shows the charge ... 

Nancy Economou: so this third setting will last, uh, 20 hours. And then as it goes brighter- Oof ... this is over two hun- I

Scott M. Curran: It's getting much brighter. Like, even in a well-lit room, it's extremely bright for me to look at directly.

Nancy Economou: 275 lumens. It's a spread light, so it will illuminate an entire room. So people can use this, you know, delivering babies, operating, you know, all different places, and then this is emergency strobe.

Scott M. Curran: So it's a strobe right now flashing at the, at a very bright setting, if not the brightest. 

Nancy Economou: Exactly, and then that turns off. It also comes on a lanyard, and this lanyard is adjustable, so now that you can wear that around your neck. Again, the other thing--

Scott M. Curran: Does it still work as a head strap too? 

Nancy Economou: It still works as a head strap. 

Scott M. Curran: 'Cause you showed me that o- one day when I popped in off the train, I was like, "What are you working on next?" And it was the evolution of these lights over time to get to the one we're looking at right now. And then- And in fact... Go ahead. 

Nancy Economou: So this just can hang like a chandelier inside of your house, so right? So now you can be cooking, the kids can be studying. 

Scott M. Curran: Everybody gets light in that situation It's just a- It's not a personal source in that situation

Nancy Economou: Correct, the whole home, and now this can be flipped, and this can go on your head like that. The other part is you just.

Scott M. Curran: So basically Nancy took the strap and turned it into a headlamp where it sits on the front of your head and is secured at the top of the head. So imagine somebody working on a, a boat or fishing or walking in the woods carrying something or, or wherever they may be, um, or somebody operating or doing a fine motor skill thing where they need the light directed but don't have the hands.

Nancy Economou: And then the solar panel, if you put the strap on the backside, now this- 

Scott M. Curran: Now you can walk and charge it ... 

Nancy Economou: Exactly. So, you know, it seems silly, right? It's so simple here in America that people are like, "Well, that seems ridiculous." But to the people that we're serving, you know, this gives them the ability to keep it on their body, to be able to walk, to be able to get to the market safely, to go to the bathroom securely. You know, now this can go if the sun's on the side, and so now you're charging it. So it's, it's really a tool that they can take with them. It could… do anything.

Scott M. Curran:  It speaks to the beauty of design, and it is an evolution, 'cause I've actually seen all of the iterations of the light. And it did start off with one with a handle, and there were various things. There was, like, a phone charger in one of them, and was there a radio in one of them at one point? Or no 

Nancy Economou: Yeah, there was. And so when we designed this, i- it's, you know, a phone charger, a radio to have some type of outsort, you know. We just put everything back to light. Light is transformative, and pair that with the financial literacy, and that's where you're gonna have change. 

Scott M. Curran: Okay. So just on the product side, like the, the fact that it provides light, the fact that it is super efficient, that it is super bright, that it's multifunction, that it's rechargeable, that it's personal and communal in the household, again, just speaks to the beauty of design and the journey of this light from the beginning to where it is now. But also there is another element of this which is that the financial literacy piece that, that you've evolved to over time. So that wasn't the first thing. It was we wanna solve this immediate problem and reduce the need and dependence on dirty, dangerous, unhealthy and expensive kerosene or batteries that are expensive and then create waste, et cetera, et cetera. But then there, the, like at what point did you realize the story and the mission and the impact was pivoting from that immediate need to OMG, this opens up a new world, that when somebody's saving the equivalent of a mortgage payment. 

So imagine if you're listening to this, you no longer have to pay your mortgage. What are you going to do with all of that extra money? That's a great problem, in air quotes, to have. And so this is what opened. So you now, you created this product that works. You created this light that scales and sustains. And I, and you, you told me a story, and I don't wanna overlook these important pieces and milestones of like a fisherman. You went back to your... you, you kept going to different places and learning new and different things and discovering this problem. But then you started going back to original places, and you found that the lights were still working. And that yours was the only one still working. \

Nancy Economou: Yes. So I'm gonna... So the amazing thing about this is when I...I'm gonna go back to 2013. So I decided to go back, right, after years of thinking about Watts of Love, 2013 was like, "Okay, I'm doing this." I ordered a thou- And I was naive. I thought, "Okay, I'm gonna order 1,000 solar lights." I started raising money, telling people I'm going to the Philippines, I'm gonna distribute these lights to this remote island in the South China Sea. And what happened is I got to the Philippines, and every single light got stuck in customs. You know, I thought, "Oh, well, how hard could it be to international ship?" Well, I get to this remote island in Occidental Mindoro, Philippines, and I have three lights in my suitcase because I thought I'd be like Oprah. "You get a light, and you get a light," and just hand out all these lights. Right. But because I had three lights, I had to be purposeful. So number one, everybody wants a light, but who needs a light? The very first light we gave out was to an old woman, and her her name is Nai Nai, which is like a grandmother. Went to her house. We said, "Nai Nai, we're here to give you this light." And she started crying, and she said, "I cannot accept this from you." I said, "Well, why not?" And she said, "I am too poor for you to love me. I've been cursed by God, abandoned by my family, and my government doesn't know I exist." We said, "No, Nai, you're seen, you're loved, and you're valuable."

That was the first time that I realized that something like a solar light is, and looking at somebody and handing them this light, you're seen, you're loved, and you're valuable. That's a basic need. 

Scott M. Curran: And it's become part of your core operation, right? Like, you ha- every light you gift, you hand it to the person.

Nancy Economou: Our local people do ... 

Scott M. Curran: you don't just open a back of- Correct ... the truck and say, "Here, everybody take one." It is very- It's almost like a ceremony, right? Like- 

Nancy Economou: Correct. Yeah. Okay. Everything is ... But it was the first three lights that what happened is they taught me, and it was through them that I came back, and I would start creating from what I saw. The next family that we went to was Emily. Emily was a mother of seven children. You know, there she is the first night that we gave her the light. And I thought, "Okay," and it was also, uh, my curiosity. What's it like to live in darkness, really, since the beginning of time on that island? There's nothing. So I went back to her house. I said, "Emily, what did you do last night?" And she said, "I, it was so hard getting my children to bed 'cause that light is so bright." But she said, "I stayed up, and I made 1,000 bamboo barbecue sticks." And that's when I realized—

Scott M. Curran: And that's how people, why that matters and what those sticks meant. 

Nancy Economou: So that's when she's like, "I didn't buy kera- I didn't pay for kerosene, which is 20 pesos. I now became..." You know, she became an entrepreneur overnight making these bamboo barbecue sticks. 

Scott M. Curran: Yeah, so explain to people what she did with the bamboo, bamboo barbecue sticks. She sold them. That was her job, right? That was what she did.

Nancy Economou: She could now take those and sell them on the mainland for another 20 pesos. 

Scott M. Curran: To people who literally just use them- Exactly ... as a product that they would then put meat on it. So she was the supplier of grilling equipment. 

Nancy Economou: She realized that she could do this now that she had time, and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh," right? During the daylight hours, she's caring for her children, preparing food, doing what, what mothers do, and then at night, she was able to create more money and, and sell those. The very last light that we gave out was really the most transformative, but I didn't realize it at the time. When I went to this family, it was a husband and a wife, the wife's name was Ruth, and four children. The husband said to me, "Do not speak to my wife. You can only speak to me. My wife has no education. She won't understand how to push the buttons, and she won't understand the process of the solar light." And he also said that that night for dinner, their family had licked their fingers, dipped their fingers in salt, and rubbed salt on their tongues because they had no food. It made them feel full. 

Scott M. Curran: It made them feel like they were eating something. 

Nancy Economou: Correct. It tricks your body into the fact that you have nothing to eat. Again, a level of poverty I had never heard or seen here in the United States. So I came back to America 30 days later. My thousand lights came, came out of customs. They got to the island. My partners called me and said, "Help. What are we gonna do with all these lights? You need to come back." And I went back to Eling Island, and that woman, Ruth, came down from the mountaintop, and she said, "Nancy, I want you to know that we've never gone hungry one day." And I said, "I don't understand. How is this light been able to feed your family?" And she said, "Every night, instead of buying kerosene, I hide a little bit of money from my husband." I'm like, oh my gosh, I do the same thing. Like, right? Like, as a woman and as a mother, I could relate to that. 

But then I thought, how can I teach women who have no formal education, how can I create financial literacy if you can't count, can't read, and can't add? So I'm gonna show you what we do now because people.

Scott M. Curran: Yeah, so just for anybody from the nonprofit world or people who aren't familiar with it but are curious how this evolves, just think about what's happened here. See a need, desire to act on it even though it's a world away, but it turns out a whole bunch of the world's dealing with it. You're a busy mom of five in the Chicago suburbs, but, like, the more you looked for an opportunity and ideas and solutions, the more you found them. And design partners, like even a company here in our neighboring suburb turns out to be an industrial, lighting manufacturer who partnered with you. I don't know if they still partner with you- 

Nancy Economou: Yes, they do. 

Scott M. Curran: Yeah, and created the light and helped you design it, and then got involved with the work further. Like, it's such a wonderful example that, like, you don't have to have it all figured out to start. You just have to start to start figuring it out.

Nancy Economou: And you have to be able to share your story And allow people to- 

Scott M. Curran: We're gonna talk a lot about that in a second. Because, I mean, that's really what hooked me. It's what hooks your partners, your, your, your donors, your supporters, your travel teams, is they all get to plug into the story of light. The story of the need of light, the story of the opportunity that comes with delivering light and love, and now financial literacy, to these places in need of ... And then they become part of this global story, and that, that... And then you get to come home. They get to tell it, you get to tell it. You get to talk about impact in a story-driven way. There are these incredible photos. And before we get into the financial literacy part, if just sort of that early stage, it was your, you, your brother, Kevin, who is a world famous photographer. Has an amazing story all his own, has a wonderful new book out, which I have. I'm gonna have him on the podcast as well.

 Nancy Economou: And he used his gifts to help tell this, you know, these are the heroes, and so he was able to capture their stories. 

Scott M. Curran: At its core, it's the best of impact work. It's the best, yes, of nonprofit, yes, of philanthropy, yes, of charity, yes, of all the, the ways we describe it, but it's really about the human story and condition and reality that you're plugging into. So the light works. You find these great partners. We could talk for the first... We could talk, we could do a whole episode just like the first three to five years of Watts and how the light evolved and your partners. 'Cause you had distribution partners. You had people rally around you. You had people hear this story and your enthusiasm, which is one of my very most favorite things about you. We have similar energy, and we get along great. But, like, you started telling me how, like, your church family rallied around you, and other people were like, "I wanna go on a trip with you." And people just showed up because you were telling this amazing story of need, of opportunity, of transformation, and people wanna plug into, pun intended, by the way, and there's a ton of puns, but people want to plug into the energy, the light of being part of transformation in this world, which is fundamental to my whole approach, which is human beings are wired for good. 

Nancy Economou: It's a reaction- And we want to be a part of this ... it, it's an interaction- with people, right? It's not a transaction, like, "Here's your light." It's an interaction and, and people can come and be part of that.

Scott M. Curran: So the story could have stopped at we created this new solar light that is, that is durable, sustainable, that creates less waste, that is practical, usable, and we evolved it so that anybody, anywhere, anytime can use it and keep using it over time and experience the transformation. That could be the end of...And a perfectly scalable thing. You could have just stopped there and, and, and kept doing that work. But then you saw what the, what was happening as a result, which is that people didn't, could cons- When they had a reliable light that they could consistently use. These are words that can get thrown away in any industry, and especially in, in philanthropy and nonprofits, of scalable and sustainable solutions. But what that means is they didn't have to go look for another light after this one broke. They could use it for years on end at virtually no cost to them. But in fact, it wasn't just at no cost to them, it started saving them the equivalent of an American mortgage, which then gave them money they could use, whether they had to hide it from others in their household. And, and this is a story we talk about this in the context of water, too, that, that sometimes when head of household, which is usually a man in the international context, gets money, they spend it on cigarettes and booze and other things that aren't in service of the household or of education or entrepreneurship. Just a reality. It's not a judgment. Um, and so when others in the household are able to save money, much less 30% of the budget. It opens in a completely new path, which is what it did for Watts of Love and for you, which was some years later where you're like, "Wait a minute, it's working, and it's sustaining in how it works. Now we can pivot to the new model." So that's the setup for the financial literacy part of this, if, if I got it right. 

Nancy Economou: Feel free to correct anything I didn't- And so, you know, just realized what they were able to do, and I thought, "Okay, how am I gonna start teaching this?" And so we'd go with a large banner and, you know, I would have very simple pictures and start teaching. And I'd come back and say, "That didn't make sense." And so I kind of kept changing it. So two things I did. The box, knowing that people didn't understand this became their bank because most of the people that we are serving have not heard of the word savings or don't have access to a bank. Right. So we say, "Instead of going to buy batteries, you're gonna take that money and put it inside of the box. Don't open the box for seven to 10 days." And we do this calculation with the entire community. How many days will it take for you to buy a small chicken? Because once they can buy a small chicken, then that chicken will start to grow, it'll start to multiply, and it's through that storytelling. We'll do poems, we do songs, we do different things in the community to teach this. So put your money inside of the box. Don't open it for seven to 10 days, and then you can go buy a chicken, a goat, a pig. 

Scott M. Curran: And so for those who are listening, the box that the light comes in is probably, like, three, three times higher than a stack of, of playing cards or a box of playing cards, and a little bit bigger. So it's a square, and it says Watts of Love, and there's a slot on the top of it that serves as the bank that you're talking about The bank. Okay. 

Nancy Economou: And then they receive this piece of paper, which is the business plan. And so they have their light and their bank, and then every single person fills out a business plan, which is how much money are you gonna save? So our local trainers write in that number. They're gonna save their money from batteries or kerosene, and then here is a second stream of income. What can you do as far as entrepreneurship? Can you make bamboo barbecue sticks? Can you sell something in the market? So they have to put... And, you know, sometimes it's hard for people to dream because they are li- on survival mode. So we're very patient. Our local people have to be patient and pull the gold out of the people who are receiving the lights. And then we'll say, "What are you gonna do? What is your first step? A chicken, a goat, a pig?" And it's that step-by-step that they get to choose their path out of poverty. If this is not what they wanna do, they have freedom to say, "You know what? I don't wanna do farm animals. I want a fishing net." And then we'll draw in a fishing net. So people have freedom to dream. And then this large sun at the bottom, it's a large circle, they have to put what is their big dream. So we want them to leave with the tools and the knowledge of where they're going and how they're gonna get there.

And I wanna share one story about a woman. I was just in Malawi two weeks ago, and I work with Makoda, which is in Malawi, who's the head of all of disabilities and albinism throughout Malawi. So I talked to my Makoda rep and I said, "Can I meet a family who has received a light?" 

Scott M. Curran: And albinism is, explain what that means culturally for people who are afflicted with that in certain villages.

Nancy Economou: Absolutely. So in Malawi, I think, I, I believe, I'm not sure if I have my numbers exactly correct, it's like 2% or 3% of the nation in Malawi are people impacted by albinism, which is, they're white and very f- fair skin, you know, eye issues, and they are really an outcast. Not only outcast, but they're often killed. In May, there was a young man right outside of Lilongwe that was just murdered. 

Scott M. Curran: Deemed to be cursed, right? 

Nancy Economou: They're cursed, but they really believe that their, um, their bones, uh, have s- magical powers. There's all these beliefs, um, that are obviously not true. So part of what we do is work, we make sure that the people with albinism or any type of disability have a voice when we create the list of who is getting the light because very often people with any disability are overlooked. So we make sure they're top of our list. 

So I was introduced to a mother who had just received a light in February. She has an eight-year-old boy who can't walk, so he literally drags his little body across the dirt. This mother is a single mother. She has four children. She has the eight-year-old, and then she has a three-year-old, and then the two older children. I can't remember how old they are. But this mother has to strap this eight-year-old to her back, walk an hour and a half to get to the tarmac, the street, to sell her tomatoes, and then walk back before the sun sets. And in Africa, the sun sets, it's completely dark at 6:00 PM. So she received her light in February. She had her teaching. She knew that this was her opportunity. She started, uh, she bought fertilizer to help grow her tomatoes. She started saving her money. She bought a chicken. The chicken started to multiply. She had so much money from selling the tomatoes and buying the chickens that she hired a local girl to watch her boy so she could sell the tomatoes at the market. She could walk back and forth safely with her light. So in less than 60 days, she has chickens. She's become an employee, or an employer. She has an employee, this young woman. She also purchased a pig. Once a family has a pig and that pig has piglets, it's, it's millions of kwacha for this family. Like, they are ... It is transformative. She could sell one of those piglets, and her children can go to college. Like, this is ending generational poverty. She's now become the role model to all of her children, and she's receiving help for, just the burden of caring for four children, but then with one with disabilities. 

Scott M. Curran: The immediate transformation it makes possible and the stories that result from that, and that's where this storytelling, right? Because it's so hard, and, and I've been on this journey with you and with so many others, which is like, how do you put this into an annual report that people don't just gloss over, that people really understand the humanity behind it? Which, again, goes to this power of all forms of storytelling. Visual, written, et cetera, um, which is why it's so profound and fundamental. Also, it's what attracts your partners. I always say that if you tell a great story and you put up the bat signal for people to see and know help is on the way, here's how we help, here's who we help, where we help, et cetera, it's an invitation. It's an invitation for other people to become more aware. It's an invitation for people to understand how they can play a role, and it's an invitation for them to get involved. So talk about how that model worked, both from the beginning through to where you are now, because you have this incredible...And I'll, I'll be honest with you, I have been a frequent target of Nancy's efforts to go on one of the journeys into any number of countries. And then I also want to talk about some of your work in not just the remote places because you've done work here in the United States as well. But share how you, from the very beginning to now, and then how storytelling played a role, just so that other people who are in the nonprofit space or who are seeing this out there and trying to learn about how impact works and why storytelling matters, you came back with that one story from the Philippines. I came into awareness of this challenge and this person who was affected by it and, and the realities behind it and, and telling other people in your own community, in your own church, and then people who walked by and knocked on the door to now thousands of people who've been part of the Waters of Love journey.

 How does that work and then how do you deploy this both domestically and internationally? 

Nancy Economou: So the amazing thing is we've created this program that is with local people. So the Americans don't have to actually be there. But I knew people needed to see how quick and fast the impact is. So we have, so when we go in usually it's two or three times a year, we will have our local people will host the American team, and then we will work alongside of where we go into a community and as the local people are teaching and training, the Americans are there to hear testimonies. So somebody who has received a light maybe a year, maybe four or five years ago, they will get up and share the testimony, what have they been able to do. And that is one of the most... Their favorite thing is accountability. When we go into a community, they want accountability. So when the Americans come, they'll stand up, "I got a light, you know, four years ago. I have a chicken, I have a goat. My daughter's in college." And it's the time to celebrate, so really, what do we need the Americans for? Come and be a part of what you're doing. Come and share the stories and the impact that you've seen, and also help us fundraise, get the message out there. And that's, you know, with Americans, inviting them to be part of it is so that we can make an awareness campaign for people to know how important light is. 

Scott M. Curran: And I just wanna give a, a shout-out and a nod, and people who work in philanthropy or for nonprofits understand that one of the challenges of the good intent is the impact that sometimes it looks like parachuting in, what's known as parachuting in, or bringing a solution that, that somebody from outside the community thinks can, should, or will work in that local community. But with not necessarily with the requisite level of buy-in or understanding or capacity from the local community, and that's where good intent doesn't always meet impact. 

And so it's not just powerful that you've engaged local partners, you've also solved this problem of looking like we're coming in with a solution that we think is right. And by partnering with the local people and institutions that you do, you have credibility, you have an on-ramp, and you have a lighter touch and lighter footprint in that place. You're still there delivering the light, delivering the product, delivering the, the service, but you have that local capacity that remains there after you're gone.

Nancy Economou: Right. And that's what COVID taught us. Right? That we had, we had a program that thrived. We couldn't go... so many programs shut down during COVID because it created dependency, where Watts of Love creates independence. 

Scott M. Curran: This isn't just unique to the rest of the world or the developing world. There's needs for, and it seems like more frequent and, and increasing needs, for lights like this in the US and other parts of our hemisphere when disaster strikes. Earthquakes, hurricanes floods and fires. So could you talk a little bit about how the work that originally started purely in an international context has come closer to home?

Nancy Economou: Yeah, and, and that has happened, and I'll say, like, you know, when Puerto Rico happened, right? There was... The whole island was out of power. The hurricane, right? The hurricane came through Puerto Rico, and, you know, people were calling saying, you know, "We need your lights." And so we were able to get in very quickly right after the very first big major hurricane, and every single person on the island is out of power. So even the first responders don't have power. There's no batteries. There's no flashlights. So coming in with our lights was, was life-changing for the first responders. But then what we did is we partnered we had different partners there where they would go home to home, the hardest reach areas, and bring lights.

And so we would go into a town, and every single person walking around had their Watts of Love light, because it's on a lanyard, around their neck. What was it? The next year there was another hurricane, and then there was an earthquake in Ponce. I mean, and people, it was amazing. They were like, "Thank you. We already have your light. We don't give it to another neighbor. We were prepared." We were prepared for the next disaster. So again, so many times in a natural disaster, people look at cheap, fast solutions. Watts of Love is an investment into a family that's going to last for the next 10, at least 10 years if they care for that properly. So you know there's gonna be another hurricane, so now they're prepared. 

Scott M. Curran: I love it. It's so important. And, you know, it seems like, and we're recording this in the summer, the number of floods, catastrophic rains- It's, it's- And, I mean, even in our home community here where thankfully we have great power and and power grids, but, like, even the reservoirs are full here from rain. But in parts of the Mid-South and South, we're seeing catastrophic flooding. We see hurricanes that are more intense than ever before. We see more frequent tornadoes. And so people lose power way more often than they want. Now thankfully, at least in our community, it comes back pretty quick. But it doesn't come back quickly in places that experience devastation. And so a light like this that can last as long as it does has incredible utility and value. 

Nancy Economou: The Navajo Nation is another area that we have done a lot of work. And, you know, it was interesting because so many times you say people come in with a good idea. And, you know, that's where I heard many testimonies that people had donated, like, a home solar unit to people in the Navajo Nation, where ours is small and portable. When they have to go outsid of their home, they can't take a, that light with them. So now they have a light, and they're, you know, most of them are, you know, sheep and different things, going to the bathroom outside. Now that light can, can travel with them. And, you know, the area in the Navajo Nation that we worked in, they're like, "This is what we need. We don't need a big home," like I look at lighting as there's a first step, and we are the first step onto the energy ladder, I think, for so many people. 

Scott M. Curran: All right. I would love to, first of all, we should probably do a couple more episodes and just do a Watts of Love series, and then we should go in country. But I wanna talk about the deeper lessons here so that people can start taking the takeaways from your story, from the Watts work that I think will reveal the next Nancy. The next Watts of Love that may not have a thing to do with a lumen or an LED diode or a product they carry, and which is why I love your story, and you are throughout my book because you're not just one story and one point. You're throughout the book, and I come back to you often. It's a little to me less about light in this context, and it's a lot more about dignity, hope, agency, opportunity, awareness, intentionality. What has the journey and the people you've met and experienced and touched, but, and served, but those who've served with you, what has this all taught you on your journey, including but not limited to Deployment of Light and working the nonprofit space? What does Nancy today know that you didn't know the first time I walked in that door and, and in the early years that, that other people can take away from this? 

I always say this podcast is about how the best in the world do good. And when I say the best in the world, I'm not talking about the biggest names, the best-known organizations, or people who are famous in one circle or another. A lot of people are doing good, better in the world are, are, are community heroes like you. So the second part of it is and how you can too. So what can people learn from your experience and your journey about being open and attentive and aware and trying, even though so many people think, especially now, that they don't matter, that their care that they have innately and inherently as human beings is, doesn't matter when the headlines are this big and heavy and the world's needs seem great and, and they question whether they matter or factor into it all.

I know that was a lot, but you are such a great example of someone who just started, and it wasn't the certainty that caused you to start, it was the starting that brought the certainty. 

Nancy Economou: Yeah. It's you know, we become aware of problems, and I, I think for me, there was just a fork in the road. You're a mom with five boys, you need to stay home and take care of your five boys. Then the other fork in the road was, you know, you're a mom with five boys, and you have this crazy idea. No education, you're not a, a designer, you don't... You know, what do you know about solar? And I just, I just decided to choose, I'm gonna take this crazy idea, and I think so many people have been given a crazy idea, and they actually don't take the first step. And I will tell you, the first steps are probably the least sexy. Registering with the state of Illinois, right? Like, it's all this painful, hard things that are not fun. But if you don't quit, you wind up winning. Right? And there may be little turns along the way, but believe... I love talking to, you know, college students and young people. Like, you know, I don't have a degree in designing, and I don't have what, you know, the world might say, the right pedigree for starting a global not-for-profit ending generational poverty, but I have the right heart. I have the willingness to be transparent, and I think that's what my corporate partners appreciate because it's not always perfect, but you know what? We're gonna learn, and we'll pivot. 

And so I just love encouraging people to take, believe it, the dream inside of your heart, keep taking the next right step, and if one door shuts, don't be offended. Just say, "You know what? It's not a right now," and keep moving forward. 

Scott M. Curran: You've made a difference in my world. You make a difference in our home community. You make a difference around the world. You have rallied partners. We didn't get to talk about that part of your commercial partners have, have been discovered, sometimes hiding in plain sight, sometimes next door, sometimes throughout our nation and around the world. And the, the thing I love about Watts of Love is that it is as effective and inspirational and motivational as some of the, the biggest organizations and best-known organizations in the world, doing so much more with comparably less. And I feel like that is also a through line, that it's such a powerful reminder that you don't have to have it all figured out. You don't have to have what you might think are the required resources of any kind, whether that's money, time, experience, expertise, profile, platform. But if you have that passion and a desire to act, taking the next right step can see you through. 

And I think that's powerful, and I love being part of this journey. I love being your neighbor. I love being your friend, and I really can't wait to see where it all goes next. So thank you, Nancy, for being who you are, how you are, for all you do in this world, and for the example, the living example of better good every day. I think the world is better because of you. 

Nancy Economou: Thank you. Brighter. 

Scott M. Curran: And brighter. 

Nancy Economou: Yes. 

Scott M. Curran: Thank you for tuning in to the Better Good podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please rate, review, subscribe and share. You can watch the show on YouTube or Spotify, and for those who prefer to listen, we're on all major podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts.

If you wanna learn more about how you can do more good better in your life and at work, order my book, Better Good, published by Simon and Schuster and available August 2026. It offers readers a simple yet powerful and proven framework for how to leave the world better than you found it—no matter who you are, where you live, or what you do.

I'd love for you to join the conversation about making a positive impact by joining me on Instagram, Threads, LinkedIn, or by subscribing to my Substack. You can find all the links you need to bring better good to your life and work at www.scottmcurran.com. Better Good is a Beyond Creative production. My executive producers are Kieron Banerjee and Aaron Shulman. Production is by Echo Studios in partnership with Palm Tree Island. 

Remember, the world's biggest problems won't wait and neither should you.